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Minor Ch 122 thoughts

January 22nd, 2006 (10:19 pm)
confused
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current mood: confused

And while I clearly haven't gathered my thoughts together, some minor comments on Ch 122. ^^;


I think I've noticed some people comment about the opening pictures to the chapters, and Soushuu (Amayadori's site) also mentioned that Ch 122's pic is meant to go with Ch 120's piccie. The thing is, I get the feeling there's another part to the picture that hasn't been revealed yet; perhaps with Yuki? If you actually put the pictures together, they match up perfectly with Kyo on the left and Tohru seemingly in the middle since the flowers in the background get cut off on the right-hand side.

BTW, for those people thinking she's dead from that image... traditionally, Japanese dead wear white. (And while I'm at it, for those who don't know, if you look at all the images of Akito or Shigure in kimono / yukata, it's always left over right. Dead bodies are right over left when wearing traditional wear and is reserved strictly for dead bodies. Trivia for the day...). As to whether she's actually dead or not, that's another story. ^^;

A part of me wants to say she's alive because of the hopefulness of her character, but a part of me also wonders if she mightn't die too. It's hard to say and really depends on what Takaya-sensei wanted to portray in the scene from which she created the whole series from. One of the lines that came to mind when considering Tohru's possible death was Arisa talking to Saki about how much Tohru had really hung in in the year following her mom's death to be able to laugh a year later (first trip to the cemetary). At that time IIRC, either she or Saki mentioned how they wondered, if Tohru died, whether they'd be able to do the same a year later.

And does anyone know what flowers are in the background for the opening images? Was it the French boards where someone said it might be chrysanthemums? Depending on colour, chrysanthemums mean: white = truth; red = love; yellow = ...infatuation perhaps? light love of sorts; general = nobility, refinement, brightness, purity. Some other weird bits for the flower; it's the revenant's (dead spirit's) flower; it's believed to have the power to ward off demons. (How the two can go together is beyond me but... whatever).

Part of Tohru's monologue makes me wonder if she's "saying good-bye" in a sense. There was part that was in past tense that took me a bit aback. What was it? ... ah yes, how Kyo's awkward kindness and his smile were so delightful to her. However, the rest of the dialogue slowly switches to present tense which is much more hopeful. How those things that were delightful slowly changed into something that was very dear to her, and how she came to love him before his third form was revealed, and how she loves him and doesn't want him to go anywhere, how she wants him to live, go forward, and not to give up. Yes, she says she wants it even if she's not there, but that's also Tohru's character accepting that while she has feelings for him, it's up to him whether he returns them or not. Which is why it's so hard to decide which way things will go with the story next. How often do you see a story kill off the main character before the end but have their presence felt to the end? I'm not sure, but it could work just as beautifully as if things went much more positively. Hence I'm fenced. On one hand you have things pointing to her possible death (her stopping in her dream while Kyo moves forward, away from her), and at the same time you have her dialogue which starts off very much in the past tense and looking back to something that becomes more forward looking and positive.


So, um yeah. Definitely rambling. I simply can't decide. Otherwise..


I think I still have no idea so... my pens arrived from stylo.ca the other day. ^^; I tried out the reed pen I picked up from Mona Lisa's and the quill from stylo.ca. I think I'll get myself some more (real) quills from pendemonium. They're interesting and even without a reservoir, they can write a fair amount. The reed as expected can't write much without constant dipping. (Maybe if there's some way to attach a reservoir to it). Quills are interesting in how they feel and the sound they make on paper. It's an interesting way to write but it is slower than a fountain pen, but not as slow as a fine dip pen (or maybe it's the nib I was working with). I suspect the Shakespeare's Den order will arrive later this week so I'll see how the glass pens and styluses are. ^__^ And I have some Herbin inks and especially cartridges. I have to do an ink test later but I thought I read that Herbin's aren't colour-fast? Shall see. Apparently some of the ink cartridges I picked up were scented. ^^; Hopefully not perfumed since that could be bad. Scented might be okay though.


Ugh! I just remember the election is tomorrow! >_<;; There's no way that the idiot isn't going to get in in this riding. I just hope we can at least see a minority government because anything else will be far too frightening to contemplate. Unfortunately if that idiot is at the helm, this country could be going to hell in a hand basket awfully fast. >_<#

Comments

Posted by: Laurie (ichi_san)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 12:30 pm (UTC)

Those are *very* interesting points indeed, Shadow. I had read somewhere about this custom regarding kimonos, but did not know about white being the traditional Japanese traditional color for dead people.

I, too, had noticed about this odd past tense Tohru uses at some point when reminiscing about Kyo. Although I can very well see it being another one of Takaya's traps to scare us even more (as it was possible.... lol), I interpreted it the same way you did, and I think it definitely makes sense.

Another thing I would like to have your opinion about is on how I think Tohru totally hears what is going on around her. In between Akito's screams, what you think is Akito remembering what Tohru told her before she fell off the cliff I interpreted being Tohru's actual thoughts as she *hears* Akito cry and scream for help. Later on she hears someone else cry, as well, and realises it's no longer Akito but Kyo. Therefore, although she's severely wounded, she's not completely inconcious, which maybe - just maybe - would be a good sign ?

Would you be okay if translated some of the things you wrote here on the forum (giving you credit as usual - anyway they all know I'm not smart enough to know all that stuff XD) as we are all (yes, that includes myself) very busy panicking right now. Oh and yeah, someone on the forum has suggested the flowers in the back of the opening pages might be chrysanthemums, but we're kinda divided about this or what it would even mean. *brains explode*

Posted by: Shadow (kagedreams)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 07:48 pm (UTC)

Yeah, Tohru's monologue and tense shift is very interesting. ^^; As are some of the other lines in the chapter; things that sounded a bit well strange or catch one's attention. I suspect Tohru did hear some of what happened between when she fell and she truly regained consciousness. What was it she said...

Here it is. When she's wondering who's crying and she says: "I have to go after Kyo-kun. I have to tell, to Kyo-kun too"... And I'm wondering, why him "too"? I suppose there, she's thinking about "all things coming to an end" as being something that Akito too should hear? That all the scary/sad things will end.

Actually, her awareness of what's happening is what gives me a bit more uncertainty on life/death (the typical final soliloquy if you will) but also makes me think that the amnesia idea is less likely. ^^;

Sure thing on translating it. (It's not like I can really write it in French). :P No worries. Oh and since I did read the boards today; cherry blossoms hana kotoba is "spiritual beauty". ^_^

Posted by: catheryn2 (catheryn2)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 01:30 pm (UTC)
theory

i'm thinking that either 1) she'll get amnesia or 2) she'll get a blood transfusion and somehow become connected to akito/kyo. i know the latter is a little off the rocker, but it would be interesting. thank you for the wonderful synopsis.

Posted by: blackthornblack (blackthornblack)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 01:55 pm (UTC)
renka

Frequent lurker here... I'm long overdue to take a moment to thank you for sharing your thoughts about chapters. I love the longer translations and summaries (thanks so much for those, too!), yet I think your comments in posts like this one are even more helpful to me.

When I started reading FB, I ripped through the first several volumes of the US release in one sitting. I've followed the Hana to Yume chapters since ch104, having caught up on the major plot points via summaries and online communities... and I have a much deeper appreciation for the story now that I'm only getting a chapter at a time. It gives me time to turn things over in my head, to savor developments in a way that I wouldn't if I were reading through a tankouban. The comments of fans like you who share your thoughts - and explain things like the use of "ichiou", for instance (your Friday entry) - are invaluable parts of this slow digestion and appreciation. For me, FB is immeasurably richer because I've had the good fortune to stumble across thoughtful people like yourself. I'm sincerely grateful for the opportunity to watch the story unfold in such company. Many thanks for all your hard work!

Posted by: うさ-p: It got all pruny in the brain water. (usa_p)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 01:59 pm (UTC)
Kyouru

After I read the chapter, moreso than ever it seemed to me to encourage a happy ending for all. On my own blog I said, "I think Furuba will end happily for everyone... I think that if Tooru were to die it would be unnecessarily damaging and downright cruel to the other characters. I don't think Takaya is trying for a Senecan tragedy. If she pulled a Sirius Black I think it would undermine everything that she seems to have been striving for with healthy growth through adversity for her characters."

Of course, in the comment above, catheryn2 brings up the idea of amnesia which I hadn't thought of and I think is very possible. I don't want to see that, personally, but it would give Hatori a chance maybe to use his power to help people remember rather than forget, which would be good for him.

Posted by: Shadow (kagedreams)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 08:24 pm (UTC)

I remember reading the "Senecan tragedy" comment and going "?". I could see what you meant but don't know the reference. ^^;

Hmm... personally, I don't see her death as being too negative for the characters at this point. Very hurtful, yes, but I don't see it so negatively. In a sense, I find that, if she were to die at this point, it would be a chance to explore the mourning and getting back on their feet aspect and their no longer relying on Tohru for that support (an end to their "amae" from Tohru). In that sense I see it as very positive. At the same time though, I can also see the others having to pick up and help her as well (ie she doesn't die).

I was more inclined towards the amnesia possibilty at the end of last chapter but am less inclined with this chapter. Certainly it's possible, or the possibility she doesn't regain consciousness for some time etc., but WRT amnesia, I'm less inclined this time because she was so aware at the end of this chapter. Of course, her not having any memory or regaining consciousness for some time could cause Akito some trouble since the others are likely to suspect she pushed Tohru. Regardless of what Shigure might believe, that suspicion will likely be there and she'll have to deal with it. But, given her ready acceptance of stabbing Kureno, that makes me think she's about ready to move forward again and *deal* with what she's done all these years too.

One of the things I find interesting are the strong parallels between FB and Genei Musou, one of Takaya's previous works. And from that, I'm less inclined to believe in Tohru's death. But again, at the same time, hopefully Takaya-sensei's not the type of manga-ka to rehash her plotlines to that extent and so something else is always possible. (Yeah, I'm seriously fenced). ^^;

Posted by: V (ionlyeatcandy)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 02:55 pm (UTC)

been reading your comments and summaries/translations and such on fb for some time now... finally felt compelled to post! anyway thanks for doing such a great job on all this stuff.
ah real comment here
Interesting about the pictures at the beginning of the chapters, i'm going to have to look at that again now, i suppose the other person will probably be yuki. there really ought to be a yuki chapter, despite my feelings about the guy, he's really been supportive of kyo and tohru. he should get a little love soon.

and i will definetly be using that info about the kimonos on dead people for my FB vampire fic if ever get around to writing more of it.

Posted by: Lina (chibi_plum)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 03:10 pm (UTC)
Gravi-Wash me away

Well, for some reason I haven’t been able to consider the death issue. I dunno. Perhaps it is because there are a few more chapters before the end, and it would seem out of place with her being the main character (or one of them). There are still a lot of loose ends to tie, so I’m not saying it’s implausible, but the placement of such a tragedy seems a bit off to me. I can’t really explain it.

Wow…thanks so much for your explanation about kimonos and your speculation about the type of flower, as well as what the colors mean. Interesting! Takaya is very good at placing subtle hints for foreshadowing at various points in the story. The ‘hope’ theme can work for either her or Akito. If she dies, and has already succeeded in changing Akito’s life just by a simple act of kindness, it wasn’t in vain. However, I think this will be more detrimental to Akito’s mental health if she were to pass on. =/ *sighs* And my own...

I also wanted to tell you that everyone on Furuba-Rama is VERY thankful to you for allowing us to post your summaries and the link to your website. A few people even e-mailed/private messaged me to say that they tried to sign your guest book to thank you, but that it wasn’t working. I think that was a problem that I had a while back too. But, the point is…FR LURVES YOU MUCHLY!! ~_^

I haven’t had the chance to read your e-mail yet. You wouldn’t believe how much throwing a party wipes me out. -_- I’m sure that I will complain all about it when I respond. Take care!

Posted by: Shadow (kagedreams)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 08:31 pm (UTC)

*laughs* I know what you mean. I can see her death and I can't. I can't see her dying and yet I can. ^^;;

Ah, yes... umm... I haven't reinstituted any of the cgi scripts after RF got hacked last year. I'm switching things (slowly) over to php based scripts (not that it's necessarily safer...) so the Guestbook won't work. Sorry. ^^;

No worries about the e-mail. I think we're writing books to one another. ^^; Later!

Posted by: beamspam mcmuppet (snapdragon76)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 05:05 pm (UTC)
Akiru - alone

I myself like to lean toward the positive. I think that her words to herself were the fact that she wants Kyo to live in happiness even if she's not by his side maning that if he decides not to act on their confession to each other. I think she's taking his rejection of her into consideration. She doesn't want to force him to be with her, because that's not who she is.

Besides, she has to live in order to fullfill her promise to her mother about graduating high school.

Posted by: sari_15 (sari_15)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 06:34 pm (UTC)

I agree with you completely. Maybe I like to think the best of the situation, but it was her thoughts about her feelings hurting Kyou that made me think that it was just her way of letting him go. She did start to go after him after he ran off--even after Yuki went after him. She got stopped by Akito though.
If I remember (it's not sitting here in front of me but I've poured over the chapter enough to take note of it ^^;) The flashback starts with her saying she needed to tell him, she had to go after him and let him know that she was glad to have met him--eventhough her feelings might have brought him pain.
To me this was something that continously ran through Kyou's mind during this whole series--his trouble with making up his mind on leaving her alone--or staying with her. It's something that he randomly touches on from time to time-knowing the longer he keeps the truth, the more it is going to hurt her. He never even imagined that she'd return his feelings. It popped up anytime something major happened with her. During the transformation in Vol 6 he battles with it. After he figures out he loves her in Vol 11--he battles with it. After the school play--he battles with it. Those are just three major scenes that he conciously made the choice to stay with her.
In her mind at the time, Kyou rejected her. Naturally when she thinks of letting him go--he's going to leave. She placed the choice in his hands, he's rejected her. She doesn't have a clue about his feelings for her.

Hopefully she does now.

Posted by: beamspam mcmuppet (snapdragon76)
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 07:01 pm (UTC)
Kurisa -- kiss (helloiamapie)

I thought he had said something to the effect of him loving her when he confessed to her about his witnessing her mom's accident? Didn't he? Maybe I imagined it.

Anyway, now that he knows how she feels, maybe he'll stop beating around the bush and start to act on his feelings. I think that kiss was a step in the right direction.

Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: January 23rd, 2006 07:06 pm (UTC)

While I read your Fruba translations obessivly, what caught me about this specific entry was your mention of the election today. I couldn't agree more. The liberals may have screwed up but they kept everything relitivly.. smooth-running. Now, there's no chance they'll be re-elected. Hell in a hand basket indeed.
-Nikki.

Posted by: ((Anonymous))
Posted at: January 24th, 2006 01:10 am (UTC)
Fruits Basket

Death is definnetly a possibility. BUT if it were to happen i dont think Kyo would be able to recover from it. It would almost be like how it was with Tohru's mother. He could have saved her but he didn't because he didn't want her to know his form. If he would have not run away from Tohru and leave her with Akito, this probably wouldn't have happened and if she were to die right now, he probably wont forgive himself. I have a feeling that Yuki did see them kiss, or at least he knew it would happen. But i do wonder if it bugs him, or if he just didn't think anything of it because he doesn't love her like that. Im pretty sure that if he did see it, he might realize how his relationship with Tohru doesn't live up to her relationship with Kyo. I'm not sure what to think anymore because i'm usually caught off guard when the surprise me in each chapter. Where is Ritsu these days and Ayame? Haven't seen them in a while. I think I would like to see Kisa and Hiro kiss even though they are kind of young. It would be cute though!! >_

Posted by: Nine-Oh-Nine (akiji)
Posted at: January 25th, 2006 08:16 pm (UTC)

On one hand you have things pointing to her possible death (her stopping in her dream while Kyo moves forward, away from her)

But looking at the scans... *is trying to get more hope obviously* He's walking off, and then turns around and Tohru is right behind him. Then they're walking off together. o.o Or are you takling about something else? *points to ava* That's one of the images I'm speaking of... The last one where they walk off together. <3

But yes, I agree with you about being "on the fence". I cannot decide wether I think she'll live or not, and it's driving me crazy. x.x; March needs to be here quick.

Posted by: Nine-Oh-Nine (akiji)
Posted at: January 25th, 2006 08:19 pm (UTC)

Gaaaah. Nevermind. ;~; I just noticed the other image. *dies and cries*

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